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Water miscible oils
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Posted
I know it's not mixed media, but I'm not wanting to disrupt a few live discussions that are now going on - whereas this topic hasn't had an entry for several years.
It'll be brief (for me). People do ask what one has against what they call water-soluble oils; and some claim they're "just like ordinary oils, just mixable with water". Now then - if you enjoy using them, I'm not one to snatch them away from you; and (while this ought to tell you something) they are cheaper than regular oils. But they're not soluble in water - they're miscible with, in, water - they can be spread with water: that's not the same thing. Does that matter? In itself, no: but what does matter is that they're not "just like" regular oils. There has been some research on these oils lately, and a key finding is that they contain emulsifiers, which adversely affect the polymer network: the ability of the paint to bind together and form a stable surface. This can lead to adhesion problems, and might - research is ongoing - provide a headache for restorers in the future. Plus, while you can mix them with regular oils, it will introduce greater unpredictability in drying rates, and might also introduce other dangers - I can point anyone to the research if you like: it's enough to persuade me not to mix them with my traditional oils.
I just thought that you might like to know that's the reason I have strong reservations about them, but I don't expect or hope that anyone will just abandon them on the strength of this: it's everyone's individual decision, and many of us have no great expectation of our work lasting for 100 years or more, because we shan't be here to see it: for those who sell, though - it is a consideration that's fairly important. In truth, this isn't why I don't like them: I just don't like the way they feel on the brush, and have not been impressed by the depth of colour obtainable. But I do think it's better to be informed than not. So duty done, I now retire.
Posted
Often wondered about water mixable oils, thanks Robert. In my opinion, water mixable paint hasn’t the same durability as traditional oil. I have this in decorating… I mean, water gear is getting better, but only better in its own way. It doesn’t brittle or crack like oil, or rather it goes thin and transparent… it’s called grinning, that’s if you can see the paint underneath it, otherwise it called flashing because of the different lustres it creates… you know?- in the light it shines and then dulls in different places= flashing.
One wonders how difficult it is to create a decent water based product for art or otherwise. I suspect the powers that be don’t want to push too hard for change as they still make money from oil. Also, I can’t get my head around, that if you make your own paint and use linseed oil as a binder for the pigment, then wash your brushes out with linseed oil and soap, theoretically you are on the same bandwagon as the so called ‘safe products’. If there is a case to rest then I have left it at the station on purpose. Jury is still out, but, and dare I say it… Trumps in, so it’s ‘drill drill drill baby.’
Also, I might add, that because everyone knows the old fashioned way works there will never be an absolute change, as none of us will be around to monitor decent modern products in a few hundred years time, and, indeed, famous artists, I think use traditional oils. Don’t quote me on that
Machinery paint is supposed to be the hardest wearing. Imagine that on your wall, out of the sun and away from direct heat and in constant house temperature conditions. I would bet that would still be around after a couple of hundred years.
Edited
by Martin Shaw
Posted
Plus - one of the justifications/reasons for using water miscible oils is that you don't need to use harmful solvents. But you don't need to use solvents anyway - a LITTLE Linseed oil will make the paint fluid enough for preliminary work. I do use a touch of turps now and then, but not always. It's a choice.
A lot of this is about marketing - companies see a gap, e.g. consumers worried about fumes, or heavy metal pigments, and take advantage of their worries by pushing out a product which is basically, in this case, lower-grade/student quality paint: it's not completely unreasonable as strategies go, after all, it IS a bit easier to use water-miscible oil than traditional paint, and many of us paint purely for our own pleasure, not because we're trying to keep improving and sell our stuff - but if your aim is a bit higher than the enjoyable hobby level, well - you'll want the best. And that won't be water-miscible oil paint.
I like the "grinning" and "flashing" examples you give, Martin: I can readily envisage what you mean: that's the other trouble with cheaper and thinner paint: you have to use twice as much of it to get the results you want; then you need the emulsified mediums to go with the paint - at the end of the day, it can be just a touch hard to find the savings.
Posted
Thanks Robert. Before a lot of the original ingredients were taken out of household oil paint. You could pour it on a window sill and let the paint self level to a glistening super-flat surface. Nowadays, the new environment friendly stuff won’t do it. But they have developed it, yet again, to a decent product , not the same though, it only self levels to an extent, also the shine isn’t as deep. Yes, the term grinning is usually when your paint doesn’t fully cover and you can see the undercoat or old paint below. Flashing usually occurs when you don’t put enough coats over your filler and the different lustres are showing. It was an easy way to explain in my last post, same thing under the eye.
Back to art. I tend to buy oils that later, in my art I can use with additives. I have progressed from cheap and cheerful to too darn expensive, and have no choice but to progress with the right gear, and, indeed, have no excuse. We spend so much time on our work you have to be comfortable that you are using the right stuff. In my view, water based products would be safer bought from countries who don't use oil, or don’t import too many products made by others Reckon India would be a go to place to buy acrylics from. Heard their household paint is the dogs ————. That would partly transfer down to art gear. Never understood why acrylics for art are so translucent. I know it’s air dry, so it leaves the colour on the paper, but why is it not a solid colour, not like a watery globule. Might be just me
Edited
by Martin Shaw
Posted
Just had a scout around on the internet. Camel is the name of the brand that’s most popular for art materials in India. Might try and order ‘me some. Most of the India’s early artists work was made with ink. Gotta try me some of that one day too.
There is shrinkage in everything as it dries, you could call it ‘the death sequence’. If this process leaves a mark, and a lovely one at that, in art it’s halfway to being half-decent. But next Is longevity. The death sequence ultimately slows and shrivels, dilates, evaporates, whatever. That is when you assess if it’s got any staying power. Then you want permanence so your work can be seen by your future fans. Any colour from stone, would be my guess, pretty permanent n’ all that. Rust too. Oil can almost stop any changes to colour as it dries, holding the pigment within. I suppose any binding product is as important as the colour. Luckily enough oil lends itself to a brush. In my view, the more additives, the weaker the longevity of the paint. Still. each additive takes a great deal of work to mix into your paint, well, more than what you think. It’s why everything is going up in price, the energy used isn’t compatible with cheapness anymore. Old fashioned values have to make a comeback, like old fashioned products. Americas genetically modified crops are the way we have to go. More yield, less work. Cheaper products, like our paint.
Edited
by Martin Shaw